The hair catastrophe that launched a brand – with Simone from Apotecari
Shiny scalps. Sparse hairlines. Clients who used to have a mane and now don't. You're having these conversations every week and you need better answers than the ones on the shelf.
Simone from Apotecari has them. She's a naturopath, twenty years qualified, with a career spent formulating supplements for brands already sitting in your bathroom cabinet. She also had a hair catastrophe of her own, went looking for something that would fix it from the inside, and found nothing worth taking. So she built it.
These are clients you already have. The one whose hairline is quietly moving back. The one on a weight loss injection who hasn't thought to mention it. The one who's oily by day two and blames your shampoo. Simone explains what's happening in each of them, and why the answer is almost never another bottle on the shelf.
What we cover
- The bond builder era and what a lot of stylists were really doing with it
- Why hair is the first thing your body stops feeding when nutrients are short
- Perimenopause hair loss and why nobody connected the dots for so long
- Shiny scalps, receding hairlines and what is actually happening in the follicle
- Oily scalps, dandruff and why washing more often changes nothing
- Why your scalp ages seven times faster than the skin on your face
- The difference between hair shedding and hair loss, and why the word you use changes everything
- Why the hair industry is not great at doing its own research
- What a proper ninety day product trial looks like, with data instead of feelings
She hid her hair for six months. Then she went and fixed it for everybody else.
Frequently asked questions
Why does hair fall out during perimenopause?
Hormonal change alters how follicles behave, which is why thinning often shows down the centre part and around the hairline. It rarely happens alone, and it sits alongside other perimenopause symptoms that are just as real and just as connected.
Does washing your hair more often make it less oily?
No. Washing removes the sebum already on the scalp but does nothing to the rate your body produces it. Balancing oil production happens internally and usually takes two to three months.
How long should you take a hair supplement before judging it?
Give it ninety days minimum, because that tracks with the hair growth cycle. Take before photos and test porosity and elasticity first, so you are working from data rather than a feeling.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
She's like, "Yep." And I was like, "Perimenopause."
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[: [:They're not watching this. I'm l- lucky everyone's just listening and just sees them because it's just constant same outfit. I know. And the same outfit as each other. And literally the same
[: [:No, I actually had different pants on, but I put these on last minute. Ollie's like, "Sam, where'd your pants go?" And I was like, "I don't want them to get wet." Yeah. So, you know, we were just meant to be in sync.
[:Simone From Apothecary, welcome, and thank you for joining us.
[: [:Yeah. Mm-hmm. Can we talk a little bit about what... Explain what your business is- Yeah ... for the listeners at home.
[:I'll talk you through how we arrived where we did, but essentially, I had a hair catastrophe, and I needed my own assistance, and so I created the brand that didn't exist before my catastrophe.
[: [: [:I have always loved hair, and I've loved experimenting with my hair. In fact, I wanted to be a hairdresser when I was a little girl. I was a Saturday girl. That was my first job. And so I've always experimented. I also have very curly and very frizzy hair naturally. My mom had- the most amazing, like, African hair.
And so I was blessed with n- not really as many curls, but all of the frizz. And so I was having Japanese hair straightening.
[: [:So it was amazing from a lifestyle perspective. Probably not amazing from a health perspective, being a naturopath, but let's just put that to the side for a bit. So it was around about the time that the balayage trend came to Australia, and I loved the effortless look. I li- like, it really has Australia as a signature, even though probably it wasn't created here, it really feels very Australian.
And I live in Bondi. It feels like- Yes ... it felt like a very me- Quintessential
[: [:What can I do?" And it was around the same time that, one of the most famous bond builders came to Australia.
[: [:My stylist at the time said to me, "Don't worry, we've got this amazing new product. We c- we can combine them." And they didn't combine. My hair turned to jelly. It snapped. I had to have a disgusting pixie cut. It was horrendous. And so-
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:Absolutely.
[: [: [: [: [:Now. Yeah. But I feel like back then, 'cause I know when we're talking back then, 'cause you know what we're talking about, that that product came in. I feel like we were pushing the boundaries on a lot of those things. A little bit. Yeah. A
[:I didn't let anyone see my hair. I went out in caps and beanies, and it, it became a thing. And my partner, who is now my husband, said to me, like, "This is ridiculous." Like, "You have turned into someone I don't even recognize anymore. Whatever is happening with your hair, it is your hair. Get over it. Like, can we move on?"
And I was like, "No, we, we can't just move on. This is, like, part of my identity. How do you just move on when your hair has been frazzled, and now I have this ridiculous haircut that I... Like, I can't show my face?" It was very dramatic, but, like, really, this is, this is exactly how I felt. The reality is that every woman, if you speak to them, and, like, maybe even men, every woman has had their own version of a hair catastrophe.
It might not be- Absolutely ... as, you know, as extensive as mine was, but every woman has had some version of that.
[: [: [: [:Mm. And how like- Yeah ... they are walking 10 inches higher than when they first came in. Mm. That is such an incredibly powerful, gift- Mm ... that you can give to your clients. Mm-hmm. The reverse happened for me. Mm. So, I mean, I had that moment and realized how important hair was to my identity. I thought that it was just a me thing at that point.
, You know, I would then have conversations, like once I'd gotten over this and, and realized, okay, I have to, I have to do something about this you know, I'd have conversations with a new hair stylist, and friends, and like really anyone that I could speak to about hair and how their relationship with their hair essentially.
The more I spoke to people, the more I realized this wasn't a me thing. You know, hair is so intrinsically linked with people's identity and yeah, I didn't wanna make apologies for that.
[: [:I should also say I'm a naturopath. I have worked in a clinic. I didn't become a naturopath to be a clinical naturopath to see patients one-on-one. I became a naturopath to get into research. I love science. I love research. So, you know, this situation happened with my hair, and I did what I knew best. I went into research world.
Into research, yeah. I should also say that I spent, like I've s- spent pretty much my entire career creating supplements for brands, brands that you absolutely have in your medicine chest- Yeah ... in your bathroom cabinet. You know the brands I've worked for. I still work with some with some other brands as well.
I, I love the yeah, I love working with other brands and kind of being a chameleon and adopting kind of their persona, their brand. So essentially I've been working on other brands for 20 years. And so- I had my hair catastrophe. I knew that I could do something. I went into research world. I realized there was really nothing on the market that was specific to hair- Yeah
And powered enough. Like, there was hair, skin, and nail products on the market, but they were fluff. They, you know, were essentially a beauty multivitamin, nothing more than that. Yeah. Mm. And so that was kind of where the process of Apotocary came from. At that stage, there was no idea about a brand at all.
I had no aspirations to create my own brand. I actually have two businesses. One is a consulting firm where I consult into brands and help them develop products and their own brand and so I was very happy doing that. I have, you know, lots and I've got a team of eight. I still have that business. I love that business.
Super highly creative. But you know, I, the more I researched on hair, I went and studied trichology. I've, I've really taken it upon myself to fix my own hair. And the more I spoke to people, the more I realized, actually, I've got something here. I've- And I felt a really deep sense of responsibility to share it with other people.
So-
[: [: [: [:And so for me, it was really about, okay, during my Bachelor of Health Science, of course you learn about the skin, you learn about the hair- Yeah ... but it's very surface level. Mm. So I really, I just, I wanted the nugget so that I could really get deep, deep in there.
[: [:I would've probably approached my training differently than I did. Yeah. But for me it was more about, well, what happened chemically to my hair, and how can I hack that so that I can fix it?
[:I
[: [: [: [: [:That's not for everyone. That was great for me.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:of your head. Correct. It's just, it's like, and this is what I've got to explain- Yeah ... all of the time. Your hair is not a living organism. Yes. Nothing's touching those ends, so at that point you needed a product on your hair to rebuild whatever- Yeah ... you could save. The re- And then in your mouth to rebuild really beautiful-
[:that's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. The reality was, though, that the stuff that was on my head, it was, it was fucked.
[: [:Yeah. So the reality was, like- It had gone to far ... forget that.
[: [:Mm-hmm. And what we know about sebum that's created in the scalp is that it, it essentially adds a protective layer to the cuticle. It helps it to sit nice and flat. And so for our product Crown & Glory, even though it's working on the inside and it's working in the scalp, it's having external benefits pretty quickly because- Mm
it's working on that kind of sebum, sebum level. Mm. So it's kind of protecting the hair and, and creating m- uh, essentially more hydration in, in the strand itself.
[: [: [: [: [:Jen's like, "She's getting there. She's- Yeah ... rolling up."
[: [: [: [:Indy's the same way. It does not ma- And I feel like it's a very prominent on the Gold Coast, 'cause it's hot- Yeah ... and we get sweaty and blah, blah, blah. But, and we always say like, "You shouldn't wear hair in slick backs." I'm like, "If I had to wash my hair every day, I couldn't- Yeah ... handle it."
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:that, and all you're doing is- Why does that
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:Yeah. It's also about the super dry people- Ah ... and how do we bring them back into balance, because someone who's super dry, like I'm actually naturally very, very super dry. Yeah. And so for me, I could very easily go a week without washing my hair, which is obviously not ideal for a bunch of different reasons, but that tells me that my sebum production, like I'm, I'm not producing- I feel
[:It's been nine days, guys.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:And I was like, "But that's why your ends are so dry- Yeah ... because you're not adding anything to your ends." Mm. And then you're not giving any- I do add things to my ends ... you do, but shit, I'm like, "You're not giving it any nutrients." Like, people will be like, "Oh, I don't have to wash." And I'm like, "Your hair pretty much wants to snap off."
Yeah. It's so... Like, you feel it's not dry at your roots. The whole thing is dry.
[: [: [:Your scalp.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:It's like it's not a Panadol, guys. We're not taking it and in 15 minutes we're expecting something to have happened. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like there needs to be time. And then do you need to take
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:Yeah, so- Was it cheese?
[: [: [: [: [:Like, no more ricotta cheese, so then you'd have to find another source, and that's tough. Okay. So essentially what I did was I delved into what is it that, what are the nutrients that directly impact the strand? What are the nutrients that directly impact the scalp? And then work backwards from there.
So what do I need to eat in order to- Yeah ... get those nutrients that then will deposit where I need them to go. Okay. And of course, the hair is also the organ system that the body deprioritizes nutrient delivery to- Yeah ... the hair, the hair and scalp. So it prioritizes those nutrients for more important functions.
So if you're just getting enough, then your hair might not be getting what it needs to build beautiful, strong, healthy hair. Mm. And so that was the process of, for me, was, okay, well, what n- nutrients do I need to build really strong, healthy hair? Let's just max, max those. But then to find them in the diet and to eat enough of them to produce the effects that I was looking for was immense.
Mm. And so then I turned to developing a range of supplements that essentially were to fix my hair, but also fix a whole bunch of, well, thousands of people. And you
[: [: [:Mm-hmm. Main Event is our hair growth hero. It's really for strength, length, condition, thickness, density, and growth. That's the big one.
[: [: [: [: [: [:Then we have Hair Atelier, which is a really beautiful powder. So the other two products are capsules. Hair Atelier is a powder. It tastes like strawberry Nesquik. Yum. It's next level delicious.
[: [:Yeah. All your bases are covered. Really great for people who, for example, postpartum hair loss, where, you know, they might still be breastfeeding, so you don't necessarily wanna be giving high-powered supplements that we basically- Yeah ... don't know enough about how they interact with breastfeeding. So we wanted to create a really gentle formula that can be used by anyone in any life stage or with any kind of condition.
Mm. I love that. Yeah,
[: [: [: [:are in as well, being-
[: [: [: [: [:She's like, "Yep." And I was like, "Perimenopause."
[:so that I can see, like, my clients that I've now, you know, have gone from having these beautiful heads of hair to literally having, like, shiny scalps. Very sparse. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just terrifying for them. Yeah. It's like that hair catastrophe- Yeah, yeah ... except they didn't do anything. Anything,
[: [:Yeah. And so it's like finding all that information.
[:And I was like, "Oh, it's not that bad." And then all of a sudden I was like- It's bad ... "Oh my goodness." Well, any-
[: [:but I'd never seen it from such an illness like the dengue fever. Yeah, yeah. And I was just, like, blown a- like, I remember going, "It's fine." And then I was like, "Holy shit, she has a third of her hair." Yeah. Yeah. And she had this mane, and her hair is her thing. Yeah. So it just... And what everyone doesn't realize is it takes so long to grow back.
Yeah. Yeah. That, yeah, I think, and she went on supplements, and it made a huge difference, so.
[:Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause it's, like, gone from here- Getting here ... further and
[: [: [:It could be hormonally driven. It could be stress driven, could be illness, surgery. Sandy, the old CEO of the Australian Hairdressing Council, I, I've worked with her for, well, yeah, worked with her for a really, really long time. She went in for surgery. She called me three months out because she knew that she was having the surgery and said, "I don't wanna lose my hair.
It's happened to me before when I've gone in for surgery. What do I do?"
[: [:Can I just- But
[: [:I personally think- Interesting. Yeah. I personally think that that's kind of dangerous. Do you prefer, like,
[: [: [: [:essentially it in- it interacts with your hair follicles, it causes miniaturization and, and eventually that follicle becomes non-operative. Okay. So the hair falls out, and that's what happens with male pattern baldness.
[: [:So that's why you see a very, very distinct pattern for male pattern hair loss. Yep. Female, female pattern hair loss is slightly different. It's the hair loss happens down the center part.
[:And recessions.
[: [: [:Nizoral- Yep ... once a week. Yep. Just to try and get that balance of testosterone in those shiny patches. Yep. Because it, it's terrify- it is terrifying for women in- Yeah ... that phase.
[:The line that I really draw is when we're messing with hormones, if you think about hormones as an orchestra, and you've got the cello playing doing whatever the fuck he wants to do-
[: [:but the rest of the orchestra is trying to sing, like, trying to play to the music book.
[: [: [: [:are living and breathing and, like, I feel like there's so much on the market, and for me I'm very much like there's too much noise. I wait till Jen r- like researches it and then I go with what Jen says. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's so much noise in our market. Yeah. This is gonna do this. Yeah. But you've gotta do this.
This is gonna do this. Yeah. And then I go, "Can't be bothered." It's too much for every brain. I think, and none- Yeah ... of it actually feels like it fits my world, and it's too- Yeah ... whereas when I find a product that I deeply believe in, K18- Yeah ... Blonde Shampoo, I've sold 50 bottles in the last two weeks. Yeah.
When I find a product that does what it says it's gonna do- Yes ... I am so passionate, like I'm the best sales girl for that brand because- It does what it's meant to do, but the scary thing about hair health with the oils with... It's just there's so much noise out there at the moment.
[: [:And they're big brands that are making it. Yeah. Whereas I'm like, I love the fact that you're like, "I researched this, I did this, I did this, I worked out this, I found this, I worked out that." Yeah. And it's like that feels different. Yeah. Also, one thing, what about dandruff? Does it help that?
[:That was, that was actually the original intention. My vibe. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was the original intention of the product actually, because dandruff was... I, I think 80% of people will have some kind of scalp issue- Yeah ... and, and a lot of the time it is dandruff, uh, over the course of their life. So I've told you about three of the products.
Okay. Sorry. There is another... No, that's fine. There is another product, and it was
[: [:our topical product.
[: [:And so essentially we're becoming kind of a hair and scalp wellness brand as opposed to a hair supplement brand- Mm ... which is kind of Heritage.
[: [: [: [: [: [:Like, I don't know what planet I was on- ... when I, like, I packed all of my, like, uh, I packed a notepad. I packed all of the... I haven't touched any of those things, any of the other things. I've got my own personal stash I can show you. Mm. Yeah. So I'm
[:My partner gets really bad dandruff. Yeah. But also because his scalp's not great, we're, like, worried about that hair loss. Yes. So it would be amazing for him.
[: [: [: [:So you and your husband could be on the same supplement, 'cause Crown & Glory- Yes
is great for oil, but it's also-
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:I think the brand that you're talking about, that very famous brand that, you know- Yeah ... came out when the disaster happened, again brought out a lot of products straight away. Yeah. Like, "Oh, this is going nuts, so let's go, let's go, let's go." Whereas I found with-
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:What?" Yeah. Like, this is a game changer- Mm ... to our industry. Mm. That I feel like when we have less that does more, it makes a brand so much more powerful. Yeah. Because it doesn't feel like they need a whole range. It's like we don't need it, because this is what you need.
[:Yes. So that's, that's where our complexity comes from. Yeah. Is that if, if there is someone who is experiencing hair loss, as an example, because of their scalp issue, they can take two products and deal, deal with their precise issue. Yeah, '
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:But I think
[: [: [: [:Yeah ... we would have completely different hair. Yeah. Because of the fact that... And I'm like, you know, you exfoliate once a week. You're not doing that to your hair. You apply a moisturizer every night. I do do that. You're not applying it. We, we do it. Yeah. But it's because we're hairdressers and we know, but people don't realize how important these things are until they're not doing it.
Yeah. And then with hair, it's not like your skin, where you do it for a week and it already starts to feel amazing, and you can have a deep treatment with, on your skin. With hair, that's going to take, if you want it long, that's gonna take six years to get it- Yeah ... to the length you want it. It's not overnight.
Mm. So you've gotta start doing this stuff now as a preventative- Mm-hmm ... to getting better hair and scalp.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:Mm. There is such a need there. Mm. And so, you know, even when I was, you know, when I've developed cold and flu products, no one cares about a cold product, everyone cares about a flu product because it doesn't- Yeah ... matter whether or not you've got a flu, it's always you feel so shit in those moments- It must be the flu
that like, it must be. Exactly, right? So and that's exactly the same when we talk about like the psychology of words when it comes to hair, or actually when it comes to health full stop, is that like the more intense the condition- The, yeah ... the more motivated people are. Mm.
[: [:Mm. And you're trying to explain to your client that, you know, you should take this because of this preventative outcome. So for example, do you know that your ha- that your scalp ages seven times faster- Times faster, yeah ... than the skin on your face? So we're using, I don't know, like I've, I apply three different serums in the morning.
Each one is like, I don't know, 130 to $150 a bottle. Imagine spending that much money and that much time and that much effort on your scalp or your hair and the, the effects that that will create long-term. So yeah, I think- Yeah ... I think we're just in a very different situation with hair as we are for, for skin, but I, I do think that that's changing.
[: [: [:Yeah. Because I think until I use it and I can see- Yeah ... you know, I don't... Like, there's so much on the market and people are like, "Try this, try this, try this" Mm. And there's so many different things that are- Pull on, and it's like when- Yeah ... Olaplex Step 3 came out, and then K18 came out. Everybody also wants it to be simple.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, no one can add those steps in where you have to get in and- Yeah ... wash it back off. And whereas K18 came out, it became simple- Yeah ... things became easier. Yeah.
[: [: [: [:Yeah. Like saying three months, you need to do this for three months before, because three months is when the hair cycle-
[: [:Richard organized it. So I'm just- Yeah ... feel really pumped to try this.
[: [: [:Nine years. Yeah. But people do care now. Yes. And they actually are looking for this information. Yeah. And they want to know more- Yeah ... which is really nice.
[: [: [:Yeah. I, I started having the conversation, well, I started researching about two years before before we launched. So yeah, it's a conversation that I've been having for a really long time. And even you mentioned peri before. I remember being at uni and they were talking about peri and, you know, the...
Well, I, I should not say uni because they don't cover peri at uni. Yeah. They covered it in, in the private college that I went to when I was studying naturopathy, the naturopathy portion. And so peri was a thing that we spoke about-
[: [:Like, if, if I went to my doctor back then and spoke to him about peri or her about peri back then, they would've been like, "What, what are you talking about?" "What are you talking about?" Yeah, exactly. So I think- I think the world, like the information, the information age is next level. We have got so much information coming at us.
[: [:Mm. Oh my gosh, yes. It was next level. Yeah. Awful.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:Yeah. People still don't. And with, in a to- in a totally judgment-free zone. Yeah. You know? Have you been sick?
[: [: [: [: [: [:to be able to help you. Yeah.
[:Mm-hmm. Like, that's just what it is. Where knowing that there's something that's so rich research from a naturopath in your own- Yeah ... situation that- Yeah ... like I just think, again, it's like Casey when she did the Puria, like it's so-
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:Like the Sahara. Everything's dry. Right? Yeah. The hair becomes brittle.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:Ah."
[: [: [:talking about all of these symptoms. Bluntness. Peri. The,
[: [: [: [:I was like, "So weird. I don't know what happened." And then Trace, no filter, so blunt. And I was like, "Oh."
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:were totally what was happening then. Yeah.
[: [: [: [: [:And, and then you, you have nothing to put your finger on. You have people telling you that m- maybe it's n- not true or maybe- Yeah ... you're imagining, whatever it is. And
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:And I was like, "Can you just put a kiss at the end?" She's like-
[: [: [:Yeah ... and to know, okay, well this thing that I'm feeling, it's real, and it's connected to this other thing that I'm feeling- Yeah ... and that's also real. Mm. And the hair loss that I'm experiencing or the, the shedding or the thinning that I'm experiencing is also real, and it's also connected.
[: [: [:Yeah. And- Yeah ... women are going through it. It's not like, you know, with pregnancy you generally have certain things that are connected to pregnancy. Yeah. You'll
[: [: [: [: [: [:Yeah. Do you have
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:as they hit a different season. Yeah.
[: [: [: [: [: [:It's just because your body's going through a change. Yeah. Mm.
[:is that, like, people want to do something. They want a solution. Mm. But when you've got products being spruiked by influencers and- Mm. Yeah ... whatever, like, it actually for, for people who are doing a legitimate, you know, we- we are trying to make a real difference in this world. Yeah. I did not start this brand to become a multimillionaire.
I started this brand because I wanted to help people. Mm. That's why I became a naturopath originally. I wanted to help people.
[: [:Mm. And I think also, like, yes, I've got a team, but I still do website updates. Mm. Yeah. I still push live meta ads when I need to. Mm. I, yeah, like these things still all need to happen. Mm. Doesn't matter how ... Well-
[:We knew that it was amazing." Yeah. But unless you have the marketing behind it-
[: [:You're going to get siphoned through your social media- Yeah. Yeah ... whatever brand is- Yeah ... sprucing it, right? And then that becomes terrifying because, as you said, what information is there? Yeah. And I think if you have a brand like yourself where you can, you know, DM and say like, "I'm worried about this," and you have someone that's like, "I get it.
I can see it." Yeah. Like, just- Yeah ... makes all the difference.
[: [: [: [: [:or if they work at all. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's kind of where we're at at the moment. It's like, okay, well, we've got a brand popping up every two minutes, and you look at the formula and you go, well, okay, so it may or may not work. Let's put that to the side for a second. This product has so much iodine in it that it's actually unsafe.
[: [:Yeah, I know. It's- Yeah. We can take that offline afterwards.
[:This is all information
[: [:I'm don't. Mm-hmm. I wait to be told and to have conversations like this- Mm-hmm ... which is why the podcast is so powerful. Yeah. To be like, "Okay, explain that to me," and like, "Cool." Mm-hmm. "What's that about, and what's that about? And tell me about this." Mm-hmm. That as hairdressers, if you've got stuff that's sitting on your shelf for something like hair loss- Yeah
it's not something you can see. It's not a ki- a keratin bloody purple shampoo- Mm ... that can make a difference. Yeah. It's for something that you can actually- Mm ... you're ingesting, or you're poking into the head. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Whatever it may be, is really understand it before you do it. Yes. Yeah. I was the same with nanoplasty.
I literally waited probably three years until Jen was comfortable with one-
[: [: [: [:certain words- Yeah ... and stuff like that. It's find, you know, people that you can actually find brands and because we actually need to find brands like yours that have these founders behind them that are so- Mm ... passionate about what they do- And- ... that actually wanna make a difference. Mm.
[:Mm.
[: [: [: [: [: [:in advance for this.
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:Yeah. But that became... Essentially it became impossible for us to run our business like that because- Hair, hair salons are not amazing at selling retail. Yeah. And you would have a conversation with a hairstylist and say, "I wanna, I wanna sell you, I wanna sell your product, but I just, I can't sell it."
[: [: [: [: [: [:Yeah. Just give them an option.
[:on the shampoos they need. But I will ultimately say, "At this point, I am really oily as well." Yeah. "And I would love to give you something-" And when I find that- But when I find that- Yeah ... I will give
[: [: [:Mm. Yeah. And then you give them product to try and say, "You need to use this every day- Mm ... for 90 days. And by the way, can you take a before and after pic?" Because a picture tells you everything. Yes. Mm. And also, can you test your porosity? Can you test your elasticity? Do all of these tests beforehand so that after the 90 days you've got data to refer back to.
It's, it's exactly the same-
[: [: [: [:Yeah. So I feel like my hair is longer. Okay, well, also, you know you can measure it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, everyone has a ruler, everyone has a measuring tape. Or you can
[: [: [: [: [: [:"So results, give them to me." Oh, I forgot. "Oh, I forgot taking them after a week." Times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's also part of the problem. Because again-
[: [: [: [: [: [: [: [:Yeah.
[: [: [: [: [: [:Let's be part of spreading it. Okay.
[: [: [: [:because we all need a bestie
[: [: [: [: [: [: [:But I take- Yeah ... a little longer to get there.
[:because I know that I'm gonna have that without fail. Yeah. Yeah. And so just trying to incorporate it in some way into your routine.
[: [: [:like, yeah.
[: [: [: [: [: [:Mm.
[: [: [:listen to you and your wisdom and hear about the journey of your brand because, yeah, I think it's magic.
[: [: [: [: [: